Episode 8
===
[00:00:00] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Hi, welcome back to the Women in Writing Podcast. My name is Christina, your host. Today, I'm talking to the wonderful powerhouse Absinthe. She is from New York, living her best life in Mexico, and she published a couple of children's books for honoring her child and the uniqueness of her child. I can't wait for you to listen in.
So hello, another beautiful guest on my podcast. I'm so excited. You just want to introduce yourself really quick and say hi. Sure. Hi, everyone. I'm so happy to be here. My name is Absinthe Maradian, and I'm the author of the Jamie is Jamie picture book series published by free spirit publishing. And I'm a [00:01:00] homeschooling coach as well.
That's amazing. And I think when you just said the publisher, like free spirit, like that makes so much sense. That makes so much, like it hits the nail on the head almost. You want to talk about your books? Sure. The Jamie is Jamie series is all focused on a child named Jamie. And we don't know what Jamie's gender is, what Jamie's pronouns are.
Jamie is represents every kid in their desire to be free, to be themselves, to be respected, to be accepted for who they are, to be included. So the first book Jamie starts a new school and plays with everything and everyone and the kids want to know if Jamie's a boy or a girl and it just doesn't matter because toys don't have a gender and play doesn't have a gender and kids should just play whatever they want with whoever they want as long as they're safe.
And the second book is [00:02:00] Called Jamie and Bubby, a people's, a book about people's pronouns, and Jamie spends the afternoon with great grandma Bubby, and they walk around the neighborhood, and Bubby makes some mistakes makes some assumptions because of maybe hairstyle or appearance, what someone's pronoun is, and Jamie very gently and lovingly has to explain to Bubby that she's You can't really make assumptions that pronouns can change, that gender can change, that some people go by the singular they and how to use it.
And a very gentle reminder that, all those old assumptions that we could use to identify gender and what pronoun to use don't apply anymore. And we have to open up our minds to new language and new ways of understanding how people identify. And then the third book, Jamie's class has something to say, a book about sharing with grownups is about self advocacy about, if we want our kids to be [00:03:00] self confident independent to really understand consent and take care of themselves when we're not around, then we also have to really listen to them and respect.
their likes and dislikes and their preferences and who they are as people. And so that's what the third book is all about is how do you share with your adults something that's important to you. Even if you think you might disappoint them or upset them, but how do you do it anyway? And then how can adults respond in loving ways, even if we don't agree with what our child is saying?
How can we still be respectful and validating and open to hearing whatever our kids want to tell us so that they can come to us when there is something very serious going on? And they know that we want to hear it and that we're always going to support them. So that's the series so far. And it's been really an honor to get to write them and share them with kids and classrooms and libraries and all that sort of stuff.
It's been a, it's been a really fun [00:04:00] journey. Amazing. When is when was it that the first book came out? In 2018. So how was your feedback that you got on the book series? Because I can imagine that, at least for me it really inspires me, because obviously, we are living in a quite different era.
And, what our parents generation assume and think about gender is just what's not true anymore. And for us as like the cycle breaker generation raising this new generation of kids who have rights and who have the right to say something and stand up for themselves.
I think it's just so brilliant. So was the feedback always positive or did you get also like some pushback or something? The first two books have been really well received. I think the first book is just people love it. Kids love it. It's so validating because it's just play with whatever you want, be yourself, play your [00:05:00] way.
The second book is interesting because it also has been very well. The books have been very well received. I want to say, but I haven't, I'm not on any book band list. The publisher is a pretty small publisher, so they haven't been banned anywhere yet. But the second one is a tricky one because there are a lot of adults who feel like the singular they isn't a real thing or it's too hard.
To adjust to, and so there's really been, the book has opened up lots of discussions that are really important to have because if someone's, like my child's pronouns are they, them, and a lot of my family won't use their pronouns, they insist on using she, her, and I have to explain, it's like calling a boy, she, or calling a girl, he, it's not their pronoun, it's not who they are, but the reason for it is, It's that they just don't respect it?
Or [00:06:00] do you think they're just not used to it? Or what do you think it is? I think it's new. I think it's difficult to wrap, for some people to wrap their heads around. But I think it's because it breaks with the binary. So I think if my child was trans and just changed their pronoun to he or she, I think that would be easier to accept than the idea of The singular they and being outside of the binary.
So it's really, we have some work to do. Yeah, we've been speaking. We've been using the English language in a certain way for our whole lives. And for some of us, it's more decades than others. But kids don't have an issue with it. People in their twenties generally don't have an issue with it.
It's like the older you get I feel like the 40 plus crowd. It's Oh, that's not what I'm used to saying. I have to change. So I always try to put it in terms of this is about the kids and I think that the Jamie books help with that because they are [00:07:00] stories. So you can identify with the characters in the book, rather than, there's a lot of there's like the pronoun book, where it's just different pronouns, but having an actual story that you can relate to and then talk about, I think helps that discussion in a different way.
100 percent because it's like, It's not like you want to tell them, Oh, you're wrong. There's a better way to do it. But it's just like you said, like a loving reminder that with them like being ignorant that they are stepping on the toes of the kids. And then obviously not validating their feelings as much as they could, right?
Yeah. And it affects relationships. If you want to have a close relationship to a child, you have to use their preferred name, their preferred pronouns. You have to love them who they are, care about them. Cause kids know, and some kids can go along with it, but it still hurts. It still affects them.
And then some kids can't, some [00:08:00] kids can't hide who they are and, it just makes for some tension. And that's true. It's true for classrooms. Also, there are a number of teachers who, are only going to use the name that's The attendance list, even if a child is maybe transgender and has a different name now and different pronouns, the teacher will refuse to do it.
So the picture books really are trying to create space. They're really trying to open up discussions, open up adults minds, be very validating, and accepting of the kids in the classroom, reading the books or hearing the books or, seeing them in the, in libraries and really just trying to create space for kids to be themselves and be accepted and respected.
And I think it's like more than just like tolerant. I don't like when we say, Oh, we have to tolerate people. I think it's really accepting and respecting people for who they are, whatever that is. Yes. I will definitely read [00:09:00] them to my little daughter a hundred percent because I think it's so important.
And. It's just like that lens of looking at it I'm sure like you grew up in a different world as well. And I think at least for myself, I know how hurtful it can be if we are not validated by our parents and like the work we have to do in our adult life to get over certain situations.
And we don't want to do the same to our children. That's why we are like the cycle breakers a little bit as well. Exactly. Oh, I think that's so true. All the, the push towards conscious parenting and all of gentle parenting, absolutely. And then I think it's hard, we want to do it differently.
And then sometimes we don't know exactly how to do it differently. So it helps if you can just get a picture book that gives you the language, gives you the words to use, gives you the approach to take. It makes a really big difference, I think. So when you started writing, like, how long was it from the [00:10:00] idea that you had writing the Jamie series to then finding the right publisher, knowing where to start?
And we talked about different marketing methods. Like, how was it for you? Were you almost intimidated writing it because you didn't know how to go about it? So I, like I mentioned to you I wrote the first story because my child wanted to play with a kid in a restaurant. There was a boy that had action figures and my kid went over and said, can I play?
And he said, no, these are only for boys. And then not that long after the same situation happened again with a different boy. And I got really angry because we, we become fiercely protective of our children. And I was, very upset that was happening. And when I get angry, I get very proactive.
So I wrote the story in 15 minutes. It really was not, it came to me. I was like, but I've been writing my, my whole life. I hadn't published a picture book before, but, writing was not a new thing for [00:11:00] me to do. And I wrote it very quickly and was like, oh, I wrote a story.
And my husband actually said, this needs to be a book. You need to publish this. And then fear set in because. If you're going to publish, you're going to be rejected. That's synonymous. And that's something that's hard for me. I don't really want to send out my art, my craft, me, my love for my child, and then be rejected left and center.
So I was scared. It was very scared, but I, I live by the motto, do it scared. Just do it anyway. So I looked up, publishers who accept unsolicited manuscripts. I looked at, the kinds of books they publish sound. I think 20 that I thought, okay, these might be a good fit. They might be interested in this.
And then I very carefully follow their submission guidelines. And so if you're going to do this, you have to follow it, you have to treat it like it's a standardized test. And you have to do exactly what they ask because they want to see every step of the [00:12:00] way that you are someone that they can work with, that you're going to be able to follow.
Instructions and that they can work with you. So I filled out, all the stuff and you have to do marketing plans and find, comp titles, titles that are similar to what you've written, all that sort of stuff. And so I sent them, I sent it out, three publishers were interested and one bought it, free Spirit bought it.
So I sent them out in July and I heard back, I think it was around December. From the editor at free spirit, but then the contract wasn't signed until April. Okay. So it took a very long, it's a very slow process. And then from signing the contract, it's about two years for a picture book to go from contract to print.
To being on shelves. So it's a long process because we did about eight, I think there were eight rounds of edits. For my part. And then it goes to the illustrator and there's the pencil sketches, the edits, until it gets to color and then the [00:13:00] layout and all that sort of stuff. So it was really interesting because it becomes a very collaborative working relationship and I, you seed control, which is why I think some people want to self publish because then they choose the illustrator and they control the whole project.
Once you sign that, you no longer have the creative control of the finished product. And it becomes very collaborative and it was way better than I could have imagined. I'm so glad that I didn't have creative control because the illustrator added her own voice to it. And, it became just amazing.
I was beyond thrilled with the finished product. Yeah, so that's how long it took, but I know that experience is not. Like the, I guess no one has a normal experience, but I think it takes usually a lot more rejection. I think I filled a gap. There's more books on the market now, but when I wrote it, there weren't any books that challenged gender stereotypes.
Wow. That have been printed recently. So it was like perfect [00:14:00] timing for you To get into it. Amazing. Yeah. Congrats. That's really cool. And in terms of the marketing then you took care of the marketing yourself. So you came up with a marketing plan. Was there like a lot of money and energy and time that you put into the marketing or the first time around I spent, I didn't spend as much money, but it was a ton of time because I decided to organize a book tour for myself.
Wow. So it was reaching out to. Teachers I knew to go visit schools, contacting bookstores I got to do a reading in the New York Public Library. So I just, it was about like three weeks of just talking and it was very, it was really awesome. It was great to read the book to hundreds of people.
Hundreds of kids and see their reactions and get to discuss the book with them. That was really very interesting and it really, it made the book take on a new life that I had. We know, we don't know when we create art, we don't know how people are going to respond to it. A so [00:15:00] those discussions were really the best part in getting to share the book with all these kids.
But, and for the listeners that don't know, but you are from New York, right? But you're living in Mexico. Yeah, I go back and forth. So I planned the bookstore in the New York City, New Jersey area. And then for the second book it was, The pandemic, of course, I wish that he could have changed the publication date, but so I did more online readings with classrooms and, it was more about, bloggers, including the book and their.
Top 10 lists and things like that, getting that more of that sort of attention. And I worked with a publicist because I knew I wasn't going to be able to do as much. I didn't know that COVID was going to break out, but I knew I wasn't going to have as much time. So I did hire a publicist for that round.
And then for the third book, it's been a little slower because I haven't had as [00:16:00] much time to focus on it, but now it's more about, getting the social media posts out there and getting more attention because people know the first two books. So it's saying, Hey, there's a third and there's also a free guide teacher's guide or, leader's guide for all three of the books.
So just getting the awareness out. There's a third Jamie book. Now there's a free guide with discussion questions and activities for each of the books that you can access and. Having a consistent presence on social media really helps, which I have a presence. I wouldn't say it's consistent, but, so coming up with a marketing plan, is that do you have a separate social media account for your books?
Or is it like all under your account? It's all under my account because the accounts actually I started them to begin with for the books. And then as I became a homeschooling coach, I just do both on there because the two projects are very directly related. One of the main things I do as a homeschooling coach is work [00:17:00] with parents on communication.
So it's all, it all goes together. That's amazing. And the social media, if anyone wants to find you on the social media, is it under your name or? Yeah, on Instagram, it's my name backwards. It's meradian. absentee, which I know is. It's not an easy name, but I'm assuming that my name will be written somewhere for this episode.
I will definitely pop your links below as well. Yeah. That's amazing. And so your books can be bought like anywhere on Amazon and everywhere where we can buy books. Correct. Absolutely. Bookshop. I know they're for sale in England. In Australia and in the English speaking world. They're not translated into other languages yet.
But that's a very important project to do next, right? Yes, my publisher decides that. Not me. It's probably something, not something that you can decide, right? [00:18:00] No. Amazing. But that's so cool. I love that. And you said that you're writing like. Like you were a writer like your whole life, right?
Yes. Yeah, I started writing really young and then I got into picture books Later on when I was teaching and I was using picture books. I was teaching seventh and eighth grade, 12 to 15 year olds and I would use picture books in the classroom because it's a very short way to introduce some pretty Big topics, sometimes history, some moral questions, things like that.
So I would use some picture books and I started reading them more and thought, Oh, this is a really good way to bring up some big topics. So I started writing picture books and then, but I was a little too intimidated to aggressively submit them and I think everything changes.
It changes for everyone in different ways, but I think having a child absolutely changed me [00:19:00] because I had to do this for my kid. My kid couldn't see themself in any picture book that we had. So I needed to do this for my kid. And if my kid needs it, other kids need it too. So that's a different motivation.
That's where, when we fight the hardest, when it's about our children and not only about ourselves anymore, it's really about them, and creating something. I think. That, like they can be proud of as well, because I can imagine like looking back, your child will be so proud of you like once they understand, better what kind of like momentum you gain, right?
Yeah, and the first book is dedicated to my child. I, when I read it, I say, this is for Roya and when your mom writes a picture book, then it's dedicated to you and you can, you get your name in a book too. So that's, yeah, I love that. Very nice. Very nice. So what are your future [00:20:00] projects?
I know your homeschooling coach. Is that something also like you started out of passion or? That also was for my kids. School wasn't really a good option. So we started homeschooling and it was a big struggle and I thought I could figure this out because of my long background in education and child psychology and child development and all that.
And for other parents who have. You need kids. It's really a struggle. So I should help them so they don't have to go through how much of a struggle it can be. I can make it easier. So that's why I got into coaching. So absolutely. My life has taken many twists and turns based on what my child needed and what I could give them and then how I can take that and help other kids and other parents.
with what I, know how to do. So that's become my life, which is very different than what I was doing before. I was just, teaching graduate school before. [00:21:00] So it's become totally different. It's so inspiring. I love that. Such a great inspiration, honestly. That's amazing.
Thank you so much for sharing all that. Very cool. Do you have plans having another book that comes out, or? Yeah I keep working on picture books and chapter books and, have to see what the publisher wants to do. I'd love for there to be a fourth Jamie book in the series, maybe about bullying or, a topic like that.
And so we'll see what the future holds. And then I have one homeschooling book that I self published on Amazon. And I think I probably I'm going to write more books about, how to teach reading, how to teach writing, just more resources for homeschooling parents. But I'll just, I'll do that myself and put that, through KDP and put that up on.
Yeah, that's probably the best option to do self publishing, right? But if you do it right, like I now started to work with a digital publisher as well. In the business sense, I think. [00:22:00] 14 years or something. And I think it's really interesting to really get into that world of, self publishing, like really focusing on what does the market want and need and where's the audience.
And I think it's just beautiful to share our messages, like so much easier now than I don't know, 20 years ago, right? Absolutely. And I think it's really an amazing opportunity because there are a lot of topics that publishers don't necessarily want to touch. That really need to be out there, my cousin is writing a book about a picture book about addiction, opioid addiction and how to explain to your kids when mommy's going to go to rehab.
Yeah, like when one of the parents is going to go to rehab and how do you. How do you explain what's happening? So she's working on a book right now that does that. And I think that would be a topic that a lot of publishers would shy away from because it's a little intense and, so I think it's a great it gives us a lot of freedom to tell the stories that we feel need to be told.
Yeah. [00:23:00] This was good. I love that. Yeah, it's so meaningful as well. Thank you so much for all your inspiration. That's great. I love that. So if anyone wants to get in touch, I will pop your details below about homeschooling, about your books, like definitely I will pop the links in the attachment and the podcast.
And yeah, thank you so much for being on the show. Thank you so much for having me. It was really exciting. We stay in touch. Yes. Have a wonderful day. Thank you.
That was such a good conversation with Absinthe. She's such a great woman. I will definitely read her books to my daughter. So if you really enjoyed this podcast, please rate it, please share it. I would be excited to hear your feedback. I'll pop my email below and I speak to you very soon.
[00:24:00] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
