Episode 10
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Welcome back to the Women in Writing Podcast. This is a very special episode with the wonderful Susie Schaefer. She's an expert in book publishing and in book marketing, and you can certainly learn a lot from her if you want to publish yourself. Welcome, Susie. Thank you so much for having me, Christina. The amazing Susie Schaefer, I would say Schaefer as a German, how do you pronounce your own last name? It is Schaefer. It is Schaefer. Okay, very good. Thank you so much for being on the podcast. I'm so excited to talk to you, honestly.
Because you're also like a hospitality girl. Oh, yeah. Do you just want to tell me a little bit about your hospitality background yeah, so my [00:01:00] background is in hospitality. I spent a number of years in the hotel and restaurant space.
It's actually where my education is. And did that for a number of years and then just shifted into different career paths. I worked in human resources, I worked in commercial television and radio, and eventually it landed me in publishing, which is actually really near and dear to my heart.
That is amazing.
Tell me a little bit more about that, like hospitality and then book publishing, like how did you make the shift? That's a great question. So yes, my My background is in hospitality. It's actually where my education comes from. I spent a number of years in the hotel and restaurant space and eventually led my career into human resources commercial television and radio, and eventually publishing.
And that really was something that I loved doing. I loved writing. I loved editing all those things. And I had the opportunity to learn [00:02:00] publishing. And so that's where it took me. That's so amazing, very inspiring. So what was it like once you started in publishing that you knew, okay, this is for me, or was it more like you fell in love slowly?
No, I fell in love with it immediately. I'd always had a love of books ever since I was a child, I loved going to the library. I loved reading. There was just something about books that was really special for me. And so when I had the opportunity to learn publishing and really independent publishing, but also learning how.
The publishing industry works I jumped at the chance. I knew that this was definitely on my path and was divinely guided and that it was the right path for me. Amazing. So how many years ago was that? I started in the publishing industry in 2015. Yeah, it's been a while, but, I worked with another publishing company and then eventually started my company in [00:03:00] 2019.
And so I have, several years of experience, I'm constantly learning new things about independent publishing and how to be of service to authors regardless of where they come from. I think that my background in hospitality, human resources, all types of different business is what lends a lot of my skills to help authors when they're writing nonfiction.
Wow. That's amazing. Yeah. I feel the same, for me as a coach, like as a freelance writing coach, I feel like in hospitality, you just gain a lot of like people skills. Like you have to, be really like sensitive, like what does someone need? And I think that's a very important quality in a coach because, obviously there's coaches out there not to blame anyone that, you know.
Just say, hey, I'm right, this is what I'm doing, but they sometimes miss that element of like continuous learning and then also like seeing what the people really need, what is new in the market because it's constantly changing as well, right? [00:04:00] Exactly. And I think that those people skills that you develop in the hospitality industry.
Really do lend to you being able to see things from their perspective. And that is what makes, working with people so much fun for me is because I like working with people from different backgrounds and different industries and helping them to. Really unwrap what is the book that they're writing?
I I teach this thing called the trifecta of publishing, which is really about your story, your brand and your community, those three things. And how do they come together to serve the mission or purpose of your business or your brand? That is really amazing. So the people that you work with, do they have a large following or something, or When you say like the community or who's like the average person that you would say comes to you for your services?
Usually there are people who are in the space [00:05:00] of influencers, people who are doing speaking want to elevate their business and use their book as a marketing tool. But it can also be people from the spiritual community who are developing a spiritual business, which might be a holistic healing or any of those types of things.
As people realize that they need a little bit of. a nudge to get to the next level. Sometimes the way to do that is to publish a book because so when you do share your story, you're able to really connect with your community or your audience.
And so people see you instead of just being a one dimensional person, they understand, Oh, this person has a background, they have their own story. And so that's what makes that connection. Amazing. It's almost like being like vulnerable and see because when we see like an influencer or someone that we like admire Oh, there's a, I don't know, seven [00:06:00] figure coach or whatever, then you think, Oh my God, like they.
We're lucky or , you know what they did, or they just knew the right people but, if you understand then where they come from and like the struggles they had, then it's way more relatable, right? Exactly. It's the background of the person that helps people connect with them and their story is a big part of that.
So being able to be authentic and share their story and share. The struggles, the things that were difficult for them creating a business is not an easy thing. So when people understand how did you get there? And they understand the steps that you took and the challenges that you faced and what you overcame and what type of healing you had to go through.
Those are all things that really impact the reader and also bring people into your community. Nice. That's amazing. So did you publish your own book as well? I actually have several books. Two of my books are anthologies, which is a collection of [00:07:00] stories with people that I worked with. And those are really fun because Everybody has a little bit of a different story, so it's just a snippet for them.
Anthologies are fun because, too, if somebody's not sure if they're ready to write a whole book, writing a single chapter is an easy way to dip their toe in the water and see if they want to write. And then, of course, too, I have two other books. It's called Your First Book. It's the publishing guide for new authors.
And then finally, I have The Escape, How to Leave an Abusive Relationship Safely. It's really about my story and what I did. To to leave a marriage that was no longer serving me and it was a safe way to get out. Wow. That's so inspiring. That's so cool. So when you started your coaching business, did you need like a lot of support then like from others?
Or was it for you like a smooth transition or how was like that journey for you? When I first started my business, I was working five jobs. So it wasn't easy. Definitely not. [00:08:00] I was working at a restaurant. I was driving for Rideshare. I was doing gig work online. I had all these different jobs that I was doing to just get myself to the place where I could start to feel like I was supported.
And eventually Each of those jobs started to fall away as my business grew. So when somebody thinks that you just, do it overnight, it doesn't happen that way. And you have to be, you have to be dedicated and just accept and embrace the struggle and eventually you'll get there. Yeah. A hundred percent.
I feel that's really important. And that's what I say to my writers too. It's not You don't have to put any effort in and then from one week to the other you make 10k in writing income, it's you have to put the work in, you have to be humble, you have to start somewhere, but you can get there, that's the most important thing that you don't give up, I think.
And I think it's really important to make [00:09:00] sure that when you're building a business, especially in publishing, that you are connected to other people that you can learn from, but also where resources that you need I have built an entire team of amazing editors cover designers, interior formatting people just a really wonderful solid network of people that That support me and my business and that I can rely on when I need to pull that team together for an author.
Yeah, 100%. So it said basically it's a team of experts that are on the side of the author and versus like someone doing it like all alone, right? Exactly. And this is why I wrote your first book, that little publishing guide is because I realized that there are so many people that didn't even understand the industry.
Not that they would be expected to. For example, if you're a coach and you coach people on financial matters, It is not [00:10:00] expected that you would understand anything in the publishing industry. So it makes sense for you to bring in someone who can create a team to work on your book and to get your book finished for you while you're focusing on the work that you do in the financial industry.
So you know, there's a lot, there's a big learning curve and that's part of, that's So it's important to help the author learn these things. But. In a way that they don't have to get so entrenched that it's taking up all of their time to get their book done. They can still do their 9 to 5 job and then know that their book is going to get finished for them.
So is there like, are you working with ghost writers as well? Like maybe they have a great idea, they're experts, but they cannot write? Do you have ghostwriters then as well that support them or? Yes, absolutely. I have wonderful ghostwriters that I work with because some people might just have a, an idea of what they write, but they're really not they don't consider themselves writers or it's a struggle for them.
And so [00:11:00] ghostwriters can be really important for that. But on the other hand. If someone does enjoy the writing, but they just need some guidance and some direction I do what's called book visioning, which is a session that I work with authors, And I teach them how to break down the writing process, reverse engineer their book, And use a method that gets them out of that linear thinking of, Oh, I have to create an outline and then write from there.
That really gets them out of the, the head space and into the heart space to write. That's amazing. So it's basically like different products or different services that you have, like for different people that come into your world, right? Absolutely. So every author and every book are different.
And so by me taking that kind of perspective with them and saying, what is it that you need? What is it that you don't need? I don't have like standard packages because I don't think that serves [00:12:00] the author in any way. It really needs to be a custom solution for them that offers them just the things that they need.
nothing that they don't so that they can only spend the money where they need to. Okay. And basically when they work with you, like You make the whole process like easy like from the publishing to also the book marketing, right? Absolutely. So the thing that I focus on is making sure that we streamline this process and we do it as quickly as we can without feeling rushed.
We're really on the author's timeline, not on my timeline. And then we take them anywhere from developing the book, writing, editing, design work. Setting up their publishing accounts getting them published, doing a launch and then doing a bestseller campaign on the end, on the backend.
And then if they need additional marketing services then I have people that, that do that specifically. So again, it's part of creating [00:13:00] this team for the author that really addresses all of their needs versus just saying, Oh, let's just get your book out. Yeah. A hundred percent. It's not about get there as fast as possible.
It's about the quality of the outcome. Exactly. So that's really cool. Are you going to a lot of book releases or is there any like book releases anymore? Really like like in person events or is it like all online? Most of it's online. Some people do actually do physical parties or book releases.
It depends on what they want. And if it's somebody that wants me to, show up and help support their book launch, absolutely. I will do it. We also look at how to get. Authors into their community, like local community to try and approach bookstores, libraries colleges things like that to try and get their book noticed and get their book get some traction behind it before they go and expand and trying to go national or international.
So it's really [00:14:00] about creating that path for them and helping them figure out what are the first, second and third steps in that process. Amazing. So it's like that ripple effect of like really growing it, right? Absolutely. And when you get traction locally, even, for example, an author might get interviewed on their local media when they do their book launch those kinds of things help because then you can say, Oh yeah, I was on this radio show or I was on this news podcast or whatever it might be that helps them get traction, but also helps them with their own confidence.
Yeah. I think it makes a lot of sense, because the community, especially when it's like a smaller community, like the area can be proud of that, like person that like goes out there and is, brave enough to publish a book. Exactly. And then people will be able to find that person. And then depending on what is their business what services do they offer that might actually generate some.
Some additional clients or income for them [00:15:00] on the back end. I think one of the things that authors just need to understand that is that your book necessarily isn't going to earn you a million dollars, right? Yeah, it's going to be what is the result of you publishing that book that's going to bring in high end clients.
So you basically like work on that as well. Like when you have someone, you're offering like the initial calls. Is that correct? And you would see what you can do for them. So do you have a lot of people that say Oh, I want to get rich writing this book, or is it like more about, like it's like part of my portfolio or something.
Yeah, I think people are really grounded these days, especially, and they understand that your book is really a marketing tool, and so they understand that piece of it. I always laugh because, in the movies where someone gets a, 50, 000 bonus to, to write their book, and I'm like, it just doesn't work that way.
That's not the reality of the industry. So I think that people understand that now. And. And are more realistic with the expectations, [00:16:00] but it really is good to understand when you're looking at your business, how does that fit into your portfolio? How does that become a tool for you to market yourself, whether you're doing speaking engagements or you want to do a TEDx talk or you want to, travel how does that look and where does that fit in?
So being able to see the big picture and how to use that book as a marketing tool, it just really helps them. So it's amazing that you just work with you meet a lot of interesting people then as well, right? I do. And I work with people all over the world. I have clients internationally. I have clients here in the U.
S. It's just amazing to me at the depth of people that come to me, find me and work with me. And it just it's very enriching for my own life. You will have a new German client in England soon. I know! That's wonderful! This was my goal after our first initial call, I was like, oh my god, when I'm like, at this point, I have that plan really also publishing a book I have to [00:17:00] work with you there's no other way, yeah. And I think that's one of the things that when I talk to somebody and I do the consultation and my consultations are always free. I'll spend 30 minutes with somebody to say, okay, what are your goals? What do you want to do? What's the book about? Let's talk about all that stuff. Let's get all that on the table.
And then I can understand where they're coming from. And then, A lot of times doing the book visioning session is very helpful too, because we spend a full 90 minutes together and we do a deep dive. We talk about how the book fits into their overall plan, their budget, all those things.
And then we work on how to create a writing process or a practice that helps them put the writing into their day to day routine without it feeling overwhelming. It's just breaking it down into small chunks. Yeah. So it's basically creating the roadmap for them to write. Exactly. Yeah. It's it. And I think what happens is when people are thinking about writing a [00:18:00] book, it's so close to them that it's hard for them to unpack all of that.
And that's one of the things that we want to do is early on in the process is create that. Writing practice that makes it easy for them to put it into 15 and 30 minute chunks in their day to where they're, it's a time that they're feeling inspired to write. And basically this reverse engineers the book so that they're just writing about single topics versus trying to do the whole book at one time.
It just makes it so much easier and and allows them to get into the flow of writing versus having it forced. Like being punished almost to finish it. Yeah. How many times did we all have to write that essay in school or write a thesis or something like that where you just felt this is torture.
I know. Your book should not be like that. I supported so many students on their way as well because like I started to love academic writing and I think I always [00:19:00] tell them it can be enjoyable, but you don't have to think about it like, Oh, I have to write 300 words a day or I have to do this. Like it's just, it can be so much easier.
So exactly. Yeah. It, and it, and that's why when I teach this process for developing your book and doing the writing. It really helps you because you're getting out of that logical linear brain thinking and you're really getting into becoming a storyteller, like telling the story of what are all the topics in your book.
Because we all have antidotes, we all have little stories that demonstrate or illustrate those. those topics. So what are those? And sometimes in a conversation I might have with an author, they tell me a story and I said, That has to be in your book. I go, write that down. You have to write that story.
That story is fascinating to me that you just told me. And yet you don't have that in your book. I said, Oh, it's [00:20:00] basically about writing short chunks and then putting it together like a puzzle at the end. Exactly. Yes. So we take all the little pieces that, that the author has written all based on the topics that they're writing which are connected to the trifecta, which is their brand, their community and their brand.
Story, take all those pieces, put them together in these little chunks. And that is what creates the whole book. And then we figure out what's the flow, how does it tie together and then insert those pieces. And it just becomes a much easier process because in today's world, our brains don't have the capacity to actually sit down and write for extended periods of time.
Our brains. like things to be chunked out in easier digestible pieces. So this is a way that an author can do that. And then before they know it, they have their entire book written and they say, but that was actually a lot easier than I thought. Exactly. Because that's the thing. And I think like [00:21:00] one of my business coaches, she's from the U S as well.
Like she's trying to do the same right now. She's, I'm not sure who she's working with, but she said Oh, it's so much like homework. I feel like I never get it done. I feel like I'm always behind and stuff. And I think like your process, like sounds like so much more. Like light and enjoyable.
It really is and it takes the pressure off the having to write One of the things I do with a lot of my authors I come from a really spiritual background And so I'm also an intuitive channeler And so one of the things I'll do with my authors is we will do a reading for them we'll also, I will teach them how to do some meditation and get into that writing space.
Because we already have all the topics figured out, like where all the topics you want to write about. So get them into a practice of a 10 minute meditation coming out of that and then looking at their topics and saying, which one is really jumping out to me? Which one is really speaking to me?
[00:22:00] What's the story that's popping into my head? Write about that, do that and do only that. And then go on about your day. Yeah. And so it doesn't feel heavy. It feels Oh yeah, I can write about this story because this is something that impacted me. Great. I love that process. That's so amazing. That sounds just so much easier and it takes the pressure off and it makes so much sense to that.
You. In this sense, don't work with fiction authors, right? Because it's just a different story then, right? It's a different process, I would think, right? You can use the same process if you're writing fiction, but typically, I used to work with fiction and nonfiction authors, but because I, as my business grew, I knew that I had to Narrow the lane, and stay a little bit more focused.
So really, I found myself working with more authors and nonfiction. And that's really what speaks to me. Don't get me wrong. I read fiction. Absolutely. But but working with authors with the nonfiction space because there's many authors to that might come [00:23:00] from. A place where they had trauma and they're healing trauma.
And so it really requires someone to hold that space for them and allow them to go through the healing process as they're writing, because writing is a very healing modality. And yeah, so it just made sense for me to say, okay, this is where I'm coming from. How can I help this person and how can I help this person so that they do a good job and they can then serve their community?
Yeah, that's amazing. That's really cool. Do you think because like sometimes you see these And make a lot of like writing income write your nonfiction book within a week and publish it and be successful. What do you think about that whole, like space? I think they make me crazy because I think again, what that does is that creates pressure for the author to write their book in 90 days and things like that.
I just think that it's I think it's a very I don't know, [00:24:00] it's an antiquated way of thinking about writing your book. I think that everybody is a much, in a much more different place these days than we were a few years ago. Our lives have changed. The world around us has changed. And so I think it's more important to to come from a place of, I want this to be a really self loving process to write this book, not.
I've got to hammer it through and I've got to push. That just doesn't feel good to me. And I think that's what makes it hard for people. Wow. Yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah. I think seeing like these ads and like what they promise like, your service is definitely different.
Oh, it's completely different. And I think that was one of the things that I realized fairly early on, but much more so in the last couple of years is that I do things completely differently. And the it's interesting because the right people tend to just find me the right people that want a really.
Nurturing guidance through this process. And also that, like I [00:25:00] said, we're on the author's timeline. We're not on my timeline because they need to be able to take the time to write, especially when it's stuff that's trauma-based. Yeah. You can't do that overnight. It takes time to go through that.
So yeah. It's so amazing that you have this process like. Set up that's so unique and it's like your own developed process over the last couple of years. Absolutely. And it didn't, for me, it didn't happen overnight either, but once I started pulling the pieces together and really using my intuitive abilities and my business background and all these things that all just started to click into place and I thought, wow, this is really how I can show up and serve other people.
Yeah, that's so great. Yeah. It's similar to me as well. You like have to figure it out yourself and then you develop a process. And like you said, it's not an overnight success. It's slow, but it's like what you teach that what makes you unique. And then You can go from there, right?
Exactly. Yeah. And I think that's one of [00:26:00] the things too, that I feel like that's something that I inspire for my authors is to, celebrate your unicorn, celebrate your uniqueness. Don't be afraid of that. Don't hide in the shadows, bring that authenticity to the forefront because that is how people will truly connect with you.
Yeah. That's amazing. That's I think, like you said no one is the same and everyone is different, every writer is different, everyone that is, creating a book or telling a story is so different and that's why they need a different process as well. Absolutely. And then when you take that story and you look at what is your marketing message, I actually did this with one of my authors recently as we went back after she wrote her book and we really talked about.
And we are developing a series of mini books for her because there's different topics that she coaches on. And so I said why try and cram it all into one book? Why not write smaller books that creates a library of books that you've published. But then we [00:27:00] went back and looked at her branding and we said, you know what?
I think that there needs to be some shifts with your branding and we did and it was like magical because all of a sudden it all seemed to just come together and that actually came from writing the book because it fit better into her new branding style. Yeah, amazing. That's such a great learning as well.
Then for her as well, like it's like almost you not only help them with the book, but you also help them developing like their whole kind of like brand as well, like to the next level, right? Exactly. Because it's all related. It's all part of that. On the other, on the flip side too, if somebody really has a solid brand and they know who their ideal client is, who their ideal customer is, that's great.
That gives us the foundation to do that. But sometimes that We have to flip it on its head and the book comes first and then we talk about the branding afterwards. You said, it's all connected, but let's make a few small tweaks and see where that takes [00:28:00] us. And it was amazing because when we did that, she and I actually, both of us felt the shift.
We said, wow, that feels good. And that's what it's all about is to feel like it's cohesive. It's all connected now. And yeah, that it's sometimes as a, the process we have to unravel it ourselves. That sounds amazing. So what you sent me as well was that free guide like and you will probably send me the link, like I will pop everything below
but I think that's also like an amazing way to support people that just want to see what your work is about. And Gives them a couple of tips that's really good, right? Yeah, that little guide is called Your First Book. You can find it on Amazon, but I'll, I think if I haven't sent it to you, I will send it to you.
But it's great because it's all the things that people don't know when they start writing a book. And sometimes it's the things that go, Oh, I didn't realize that. Or, Oh, I didn't think about those things. So I just find it to be really helpful. Amazing. Yeah. Thank you so much. Like [00:29:00] I have so many like ladies in my community as well that I said Hey, if you're ready with your book, just let me know.
I will give you Susie's contact and they like all, Oh yes, that's amazing. Like she can help me like going to the next level, like that's so cool. Yeah, absolutely. Would love to help. Yeah. And if if you ever know of somebody who's doing a writing retreat or something like that. Happy to help and come and speak at that and, create a workshop for people that want to get into that writing space and I'll teach them, do the whole book visioning process for them.
So cool. I actually like, that was like one of the goals. Like when I started this year, like the writing retreat, came up again and again, because I thought, like my background in hospitality and yeah, absolutely. It's one of the things that I'm developing with a couple of different people.
They plan the retreat and they set it up and get the whole retreat planned. And then they just basically have me come [00:30:00] in. And I work through and we figure out how many sessions do you want? What other types of things do you want? Do you want intuitive readings? Do you want book visioning? There's writing time available.
But there's a whole bunch of stuff we can do at writing retreats where I come in and teach that for people that are hosting retreats. Yeah. Amazing. That's so cool. What a good idea. Let's definitely chat more about that. Yeah, for sure. Susie, thank you so much for all your wisdom. That was really inspiring.
Thank you so much, Christina. I'm just really excited to meet everyone in your community. Yes, I will definitely. I said we should maybe also create an expert session or something with you, or that would be amazing. That you can speak to them as well, or we record something and I include it in the course or something.
We can create something good out of that. Relationships. Absolutely. And if you ever want me to come on with your community and do a Q and a session, I'm happy to do thank you so much. Thank you so much for your time. [00:31:00] Thanks, Christina.
What an amazing episode. I'm so happy that Susie was on the podcast and shared so much of her knowledge. You should definitely take your chance and book your free consultation with her. If you are just thinking about writing and publishing a book because she can really support you from like start to finish the whole process and her team are definitely the best.
I will also contact her. For my own publications in the future. And if you enjoyed this episode, please rate it, please share it. You can also find me on Instagram, my handle is freelancewritingcoach for more freelance writing tips and yes, stay tuned for next week's episode because it will be very special as well.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
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