Episode 16
===
[00:00:00] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Welcome back to the Women in Writing podcast. My name is Kristina. I'm your host. Today, I have the wonderful Jessica on and she's so inspiring. She never took a normal job because she always knew that she could make it as a writer. And in this episode, she will share how she did it.
Welcome to the wonderful Jessica. I'm so excited to have you on the podcast today. Thank you. I appreciate the opportunity. How are you feeling? Everything okay? Yeah, feeling pretty good. How about you? I'm doing well as well. Thank you so much for asking. Yeah, I was super excited for our conversation. Like it was only, I think two days ago or something when we [00:01:00] spoke, but like you feel inspiration for a lot of women out there.
So How about we start, tell me a little bit more about how you started your writing career and when you what was the point in time in your life when you knew hey, I want to be a writer and I just want to go forward and do that for myself. So if I'm being totally honest. Writing's just always been a part of my life in some shape or form.
My earliest memories, I would be writing stories for my sisters or my parents for as birthday presents and different things like that. So writing's always been in my life and I always knew I wanted to. Do it. But when I got into high school, that was the time that I really started to understand that, you could make a career out of it.
And it wasn't, just about writing books or, things like [00:02:00] that. You could really do something with it. And Yeah, when I was in high school, I was 17 I got my first gig where I was writing for Yahoo Voices, and I just thought that was such a huge deal. Cool. What is Yahoo Voices?
Can you tell me I'm not really, I know Yahoo, but I'm not really familiar with Yahoo Voices is. It was a platform where you could they would get like you could have different writers on. It was like a big platform where they might look for certain topics and you could, write an article or something on specific topics and they would pick up the stories if they thought they were interesting and things like that.
And there were a lot of people on it, so I was like, ah, they're not gonna pick my story. I'm not doing anything. But then I so happened to see where they picked one and I went onto the Yahoo homepage and it, I could see it on the homepage and I was so excited. Wow. What year was that? Oh, that was [00:03:00] 2013.
Wow. So 10 years ago. That's cool. And what was the story about tell us, what did you write about. That story was about my graduation. And just, I think it was talking about my parents and how they were supportive of me, and going through high school and graduating and going into this next stage of life.
It was something along those lines. But I remember I was so excited. 'cause the main picture I used was my parents and I when I graduated. Wow. And I was like, what? I can see my face on there. I was so excited. And it, that, that particular situation just, it helped motivate me to keep pushing forward.
Wow. That's amazing. Thank you so much for sharing that. That's such a cool an inspirational memory. So you were not paid probably for that kind of Yahoo Voices, but you saw yourself like like publishing something and other people could read it, right? That's really [00:04:00] cool. And yeah. What was then like, how did it evolve from there then that you really said, Hey, I want to, because now maybe you want to give the listeners a perspective.
What are you doing now? What is your day to day job right now? So now I have a content marketing company. Where we we do, your typical things like your social media management, things like that, but we also do a ton of writing, editing, strategy so I'm still writing every day. And I also, I still do a lot of freelance projects where, maybe somebody wants to work with me for an article or feature story, something like that.
I have a small business group as well. And then I'm also an author. I'm writing in different forms, but writing is still at the heart of everything I do. That is so cool. And that's another like inspirational thing for a lot of people because I feel some people tell you. Like you have to niche down, you have to pick your niche, if you're writing and if [00:05:00] you're creative, like you can write so many different things and you can be successful with so many disciplines of writing, right?
And I'm with you on that. I don't always advocate for niching down. Just because one I'm just the type I like to learn as much as I can. So if I can, I'll go over here and then maybe I'm writing about finance or then I go over here and I'm talking about fashion. I like to be able to be as well versed as I can be.
But there's nothing wrong. If maybe you're just the type you like writing about certain things, that's okay. But don't feel pressure to just stick to one area. And how did you get there? Like how did you were you ever employed as a writer, some someone that like work for other people or were you employed as a journalist or something?
I was I would say all of the above because when I started out I was a freelance contributor for several [00:06:00] online publications. And then I started working as a staff writer with some magazines. After I did that, I was working as a writer and a blog manager with a company. And then closer to, uh, when I started my company, like I had my company, but I started working as a staff writer and that was considered to be like I was an employee of theirs.
But for the most part the majority of things I've done have been freelance or some sort of contract work. Yeah, that makes so much sense. And it's. Would you describe it as one thing led to another or? Yeah, I would say that it was just it naturally progressed, but I would also say too that it was about the relationships that I built along the way when I was in college and things like that, Instagram and Twitter, they were really [00:07:00] big at the time, not that they're not big now, but they were just big in my life, at that time, and so I would be online a lot.
So I'd be looking through job boards or in Facebook groups, just connecting with people. And so some of those relationships that I had, they were able to lead me to different jobs or just tell me Hey, I heard they're looking for somebody. Maybe you need to reach out to them. The job that I did have that where I was an employee, I was applying for a different job and they told me, you might not be a great fit for us, but there's this other company we know that they're looking for somebody and we think you'd be a great fit.
And I wound up getting that job. So sometimes it's just about you putting yourself out there and building relationships and just being willing to try and being open minded. Kind of one thing led to the other then and yeah, open minded is a Good point as well. And how long did it take you until you could really live off your writing?
Was it quick for [00:08:00] you or did it take a long time? Let's see. Because to be honest, I've mostly been living off of it the entire time. But I do understand I consider myself to have been in a privileged position because I had really supportive parents. But in terms of. being able to just fully live off of it, like totally and completely, it would probably be maybe these past seven years.
Cause yeah, I'm pretty much self sufficient now. That's this, all this stuff that I do is, that's it. Yeah. Cause I've never I've never had, like some people are writers, but they still have other jobs. Like maybe they, like somewhere they actually go. I've never had that experience personally.
I've just, I've literally always been a writer in some shape or form. But I also understand [00:09:00] that especially at the beginning, it was not like you had a consistent income coming in all the time. It was definitely a work in progress, which, again, like I said, I was thankful for my parents being supportive at the time, especially once I got out of college and things and just was trying to build up.
So it took some time, but thankfully it worked itself out. Wow, that's amazing. I really love that. I think that's really, like I said, really inspiring and Yeah. That's, I think it's a lot connected to the mindset as well, because you always had that mindset of Hey, I'm a writer and it just works out.
That's how it sounds like to me, or was it because, I was interviewing another podcast episode with another lady just earlier. And it's almost like if you always say it doesn't work out for me or I'm never successful then, like that's a story that you're telling yourself.
That's very true. [00:10:00] That's a really great way to put it because there were a lot of times where, you know, I was like this, maybe this isn't gonna work or maybe, I should have kept going to school or gotten something else, but you do, you have to stay focused on that.
And if that's something you're really passionate about and you want to do, you stick with it because as we all know, being writers, it's not like a get rich quick scheme, it's not necessarily something that can happen overnight. So you really do have to have a passion for it.
And then again like I was saying before about my parents, not only you believing, but having other people believe in you is also really important because it gets tough. And it gets tough. And it's like a lot of times, like when people um, I don't know how to say it, but when people have that.
environment where they are always told, Hey, you cannot be a [00:11:00] writer. Like it's really difficult, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I think it can be difficult, right? It can be like, you have your tribe of writers. And the good thing about like us online now, and like with me having the Facebook community and like having the podcast and everything, it feels like, Yes, I'm creating that at least like that online tribe for other women because they get inspired by, for example, your story now.
And they're like, Hey, there is actually a way like, Hey, I could do this. And it's just not about the whole picture yet or like the whole clarity. It's just about seeing the next step, but also being inspired that it's possible and not only hearing. Like maybe your friends and family, there's no one that's a writer and then it can be difficult, right?
Yeah, that's very true. Because I know when I graduated because I was the type, I did really well in school and things like that. So I started at a community college, but I didn't go on to university. And a lot of people were thrown off by that. And then they [00:12:00] found out cause I was an English major.
So they assumed I was going to be a teacher and I was like, no, that's not my thing, and so a lot of people were like why didn't you do that and try to get your teaching license? So you'd have something to fall back on or if you're going to be a writer, you're going to have to leave because I'm located in Mississippi.
Mississippi tends to get a bad rap, they was like, yeah, you got to leave. You can't make it here. And I don't know, like it didn't phase me as much, but almost at the same time, now I look back on it and I'm I proved you wrong. I know that might not be the right way to handle that, but sometimes that's the way that I think about it, because you don't have to leave.
Cause like you're saying, the internet is powerful. You can go a million places at once and you don't even have to leave your house. So hopefully, in one way, it can be negative in another way if you never if you really, but, I think it's it's about that career and like for me like that's what I share a lot too is [00:13:00] like for me having like a background in hospitality it's like almost the other world you know because like in hospitality you always work in a team with different people there's always guests you always have like people around you and you can always chat to someone and Then as a writer, you sit at home with your laptop and, in your pajamas kind of thing, like the total opposite and you have to like it, there's obviously a million ways how you can make it work.
And maybe you want to write in a cafe or you want to go and go on a writer's retreat at one point or whatever it is, right? Yeah. There's a way to work around lots of stuff. Yeah, definitely. And I think it's a really inspiring like situation that nowadays we can see other successes.
I think it's difficult to, because, sometimes we were just so overwhelmed by everything that's going on online. That sometimes you don't really know who to trust and who not to trust. Just saying, but I think like people like us that are authentic and show up and [00:14:00] especially also be persistent and keep on doing what they're doing, then it's just, like a different, um, I don't know, like it gets more real almost.
Yeah. Yeah. You can always think, when somebody's being authentic and genuine, you can feel that, yeah, whatever they're making, and you can tell when somebody's trying to fake it. Yeah, exactly. That's what I think, too. And obviously as like a consumer you are smarter, right?
You get smarter as you go it's not always I don't know Yeah. It's like the first time we're using the internet, like right now how some people are like dealing with things and some things are not right.
So it's yeah, definitely difficult to not difficult. I wouldn't say difficult, but sometimes it's Yeah, maybe a little [00:15:00] bit challenging nowadays to stand out online a little bit more than it was before. Would you say that is true for you too, or do you get like most people that are referred to you or do you also get a lot of new clients?
I would say that it can be a tad bit difficult just because there's so much going on, but I think the important thing for writers to think about, especially from a marketing standpoint, is to be true to yourself. Because there's always going to be somebody who maybe you love the color pink, and there's another writer who does that.
You can't help that, but they're also not and so you want to try to keep your voice as unique as possible and stay true to yourself. Don't try to, look over at what they're doing and copy them. Be who you are, and that'll shine through. And then in terms of. Clients I get a lot of new clients [00:16:00] and I think some of them just come to me because of that, because I noticed a lot of the people I work with, we're fairly similar sometimes like in the way we think, or it's just something about The relationship you have with those clients, where you just know how they talk and they know that you can pick up on that.
And my big thing is especially when clients refer me to other people, the 1 of the big, the 1st things are the biggest things they emphasize is that I'm patient. Which I didn't really think about it for a long time, but now I realize, especially if it's someone who may not be super tech savvy or, maybe an older person who's just trying to figure things out or they're just super new to writing or marketing or whatever it is they need me to do.
Sometimes they need their hands to be held and not everybody is able to do that. You know what I mean? And I think that works. For, whatever industry [00:17:00] you're in, some people just to say, Hey, this is what I want. Go do it. Some people want to be more involved. It just depends on, how they are and how they work with you.
So I think that's a really important part. And then that's another thing that I would even bring out for writers. Yes, you want to have your clients, but you want to be able to present your best self. So sometimes that may mean you can't work with them, it could be, maybe the way they communicate, maybe it's, the topic that they want and you may not feel strong in that, or it may be something you're not comfortable with, but you always want to make sure that not only are you making the client shine, but you're also allowing your work to shine.
So being strategic about the projects that you take on. A hundred percent. Yeah. And do you, how do you select your projects? Is it like you take on everything or is it like that you can be like, especially now that you're like more [00:18:00] successful, you can be like really selective that you say Hey, I'm only working with people that.
Like I'm definitely like passionate about or how is that for you right now? I tend to, I don't, I still don't just limit it to certain things. There's certain, types of subjects I'm usually not comfortable speaking on. Cause I know for me, I don't do a ton of Kind of writing just because I don't know anything about tech and it's just not something that I'm in love with.
Yeah. Say I wouldn't do it in the future, I'll be like maybe I can refer you to somebody, but usually it's not many projects that I just haven't taken on. And a lot of it is just because. I just like challenging myself and learning new things. So I'm always, willing to at least try, but if it's something I'm like, absolutely not, I don't mind telling them or saying, Hey, I know this other writer, they may [00:19:00] be a better fit for you.
Yeah, exactly. Did you have any like really bad experiences with clients so far? Something that was really like out of the box Oh my God, bad. I haven't, I'm lucky to say I haven't had terrible experiences, but one particular time I was working with someone who wanted me to write some pieces for them, and they gave me their, topics and everything, and I wrote the piece, but they were super picky about everything because I remember one thing I wrote And she's okay, this is great.
And then she sent it back to me for edits and she basically rewrote the whole article. Oh, really? And I was like, so what'd you call me for? Why didn't you write it yourself? So clearly, so when it's things like that, we were under a contract. So I was like, okay, I just have to fulfill, what I agreed to in the contract and I'm just going to leave after [00:20:00] that, but she, that person, she was a bit difficult, you, everybody has their own way of doing things and you just have to wish people the best, exactly. That's the thing. I feel like for me, it was an experience especially what I call like the low paying niche. Like when I was like on, like these different like platforms, not really Upwork or Fiverr, platform or like just writing jobs in general that didn't pay as well.
And it was like a short, like less committed client relationship. I feel like that was more when people complained than like my higher paying clients then, because The higher paying clients, like they want to hire a professional, they're ready to spend the money. They're ready to communicate everything like really well.
And they because they hire you for good money, they value you a little bit more, I think that was. True for me, especially but that shouldn't, I don't want to say [00:21:00] that, like low paying jobs are, you only work with like weird people or whatever, it's definitely not the case because I had like very good experiences there as well.
But in general, I just want to share that, you know, especially for like my writers that go into the higher paying niche. That because a lot of people are like, Oh, I'm not sure if I can deliver, and I'm not sure if I'm like good enough and, if these people may be snobby or whatever, I feel like there's like the opposite was true for me.
Yeah, I would agree with that. I do think there is a higher level of trust with higher paying clients. And I think too, they just understand the value of that type of investment. Some people I think who pay it, who, are lower, they pay lower. I noticed with them, they expect you to be a robot and just constantly create and create.
And it's just this takes time. This takes energy, research, all of that. We [00:22:00] deserve to be compensated fairly for that. And, there's nothing wrong with starting out with lower things, because they can help you build your portfolio. But to, getting to the point where you understand okay, I have some skin in the game.
I've paid my dues a little bit, now I can reach a little higher. So really being willing to speak up and be like, and we, can we negotiate or, something like that to fight for yourself a little bit, but yeah. It's hard because when people think you're a writer, it's oh.
You can write everything and this is just going to come out like a conveyor belt. It's no, that's not how it works Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, that's not how it works. And you're right like that's when you know, like people How should I say it like? Try that they own you, I think like I saw something online that was really interesting and I resonated with that, it's all about your pricing model as well, because, and we can, like everyone like does different pricing and I'm [00:23:00] teaching that also to my clients, what makes sense for what, like what kind of writing, but a lot of times I feel if people book like retainers and they feel like, Oh, we pay you every single month, then we own you, like work for us, like that shouldn't be the thing. And it's, I think also not the idea of freelancing. I always spoke to a lot of people that had like freelance jobs that were advertised as freelance jobs, but actually then the kind of like client said, Oh, you have to be on from nine to five every day.
And we send you like Slack messages. You have to respond within 10 minutes. And no, it's not a freelance job because then you could have a normal job to sit somewhere and, get health benefits and whatever. Then you don't have to be a freelancer if you don't have that freedom because it's obviously about the freedom, right?
I hate when that happens. It's just if you want me to be an employee, just say it. Don't make it like it's freelance. Exactly. Yeah. And don't fade me into that. What last question? What [00:24:00] would be like the number one tip that you give to someone that's just starting out?
Because actually, like this thing that I wanted to cover is that what I really remember about our conversation is that you said, You were giving out your business cards, handing out your business cards in local restaurants. Is that right? Right. And you got clients off of it, right? Like at the very beginning when you started out, right?
And that particular client I still work with to this day. Wow. That's amazing. And it's a very unique way. Like I never heard of it because, obviously digital age and stuff, but I feel especially like with everything digital sometimes. It is a good idea to make it known really in your community, what you're doing, it can be on, like in different, like on different occasions or whatever, but that is really like when people in your local community think Oh, she is from here.
Like I would rather give her a shot than someone from online, [00:25:00] and they like somebody that they can see, pretty often they can shake their hand. That's what I've found with a lot of my clients and that's even, with my books and things. Cause I, I try to be really involved in my community anyway.
But also I do. I had the privilege. I don't, I'm not far from Oxford, Mississippi, which is Faulkner City. A lot of people are really into the literary circle there. And even in my town I'm heavily involved in the library. I always joke I was raised in the library because we were just always there because we love to read.
And so people have been really supportive just because they see me, they know who I am, and like I said, it's somebody you can have some sort of access to. That means a lot to people. Some people, it might not bother them not to, see you, or they can just talk to you over Zoom. But for a lot of my clients, it's been important that, if we need to have a meeting, I can meet you at your office or we can meet somewhere and we can talk face to face.
[00:26:00] That's just been important to them. Yeah, that's really cool. I love that. Yeah. So great. So Your number one tip for everyone starting out would be that they keep going, or what would it be? What would my tip be? I think that my tip would be to continue to remember your why. That's a really good one.
Because for us as writers, and that could really go for any art form. It can be difficult, and writing can be, you get connected to your writing a lot of times. And Again, when you have it where things may not be as consistent as you want it to be, or people are trying to tell you, you need to do other things.
Like, why [00:27:00] did you get started? What made you want to do this anyway? And that's what you can hold on to when those times get hard. So that's what I would say. That's amazing. I love that. Really cool. Thank you so much. That was really inspiring. And that's, yeah, that's definitely a really good tip.
Thank you. Wow. Thank you so much for the conversation like that's That's really good. Is there anything else you want to add? I will otherwise pop your information below. Everyone who wants to connect with you should. Are you very active on Instagram or what is that kind of your platform? Yeah, I'm active on several platforms, I do a lot on Facebook, Instagram. I'm on TikTok and Twitter. So yeah, if you want to get in touch with me or just see what I'm up to, just check me out over there. Good, we will definitely. Thank you so [00:28:00] much, Jessica. Have a wonderful rest of your day. Thank you. You too. See you very soon. Thank you.
Thanks.
Oh my God, Jessica, that was amazing. Thank you so much. I'm so blessed and I'm so honored that she was on my podcast. So please, if you want to reach out to Jessica, I will pop her links below. And if you want to get access to a free three day masterclass of how to build your own six figure freelance writing business, just shoot me an email with the keyword three elements, and I will send it to you as soon as possible.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
