Episode 24
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[00:00:00] I'm going to go ahead and
Welcome back to the Women in Writing podcast. This week, we have Erica on the podcast, and she is a well published author. And she's writing articles, and she was published in the Wall Street Journal and all of these amazing magazines, New York Times, you name it, and you can learn from her how to do it.
Hello and welcome to the wonderful Erica. I'm so excited to have you here. Oh, thank you so much for having me. I'm so glad that we connected online. Yeah, me too. Really exciting because like one of my students was also then in your program and she was like, Oh, did you hear about her? And I was like, no, I didn't.
And then she told me about you and that's great. And like [00:01:00] that I'm talking to another female freelance writer and freelance writing coach. And it's like an amazing world, like to connect with all the girls in that space. Yeah, it's really fun to talk to people in the kind of like doing the exact same thing because you all do it a little bit differently, but it's, you all have the same things going on, the same feelings, the same problems and struggles.
So I think it's cool to do that and not look at anything as competition, but more just Hey, we can all help each other out. Yes, a hundred percent. And then I think Nowadays, obviously I think like it's more sisterhood than competition, like a lot of times. And I talk about that with my group a lot.
And I'm also in a program where it's like different moms coming together as entrepreneurs. And it's just, like lifting each other up because you are. Also not only focus, but also specialize in pitching, right? Yes. Yeah. Specialized in pitching magazines and newspapers and love helping people get [00:02:00] those really fun bylines that they can be proud of.
And just, the ones that you're gonna, you're going to get the print copies, maybe frame it, save it forever, give it to your grandchildren. So I love being able to do that. That's so amazing. That's so cool. And that's something I never did. So that's so amazing. So how did you get started and all of that?
Did you love writing like since you were little or how was that for you? Yeah, I've always loved writing. Always been, a writer in my personal life. I did major in journalism and really have, been focused in communications type careers but not specifically a writing career.
So I, was in these communications jobs forever. And then I found myself working in marketing and communications at a magazine. And it was there that I got a lot of opportunities to write just because I worked there. So they let me write stuff, which was really I'm a decent writer.
So they were cool with it. But as I did that, I connect with other writers and at the same time began [00:03:00] writing my first book which is a whole other story, but really worked out really well for me. And that process. When you're because when you're sorry, when you're marketing a book, you really want to get out there with guest posts and articles and things like that.
And so I started doing that and realizing how much I enjoyed that process. And really put some big goals out there on where I wanted to be published. I made a list. I was like, I'm gonna be published in the Wall Street Journal and all of these places. And then I actually did it. And I had this sort of.
epiphany that, Oh my gosh, anybody can do this if they don't, if they just know the strategy behind pitching and coming up with a good idea. And so that's where I, that's when I began, slowly tiptoeing my way to this business that I'm now running. That's amazing. That's what I always tell my students that I like new to that world.
I'm always saying to them like your niche will find you and you will figure it out, like you have to start somewhere, but you have to believe and [00:04:00] then, keep going with it. So interesting. And yeah. You said like you talked about your first book. Talk about that a little bit more.
Sure. Yeah. It's every writer I feel says at some point one of my big goals in life on my bucket list, I want to write a book. And I always said that for years and years, but it's like, Hey, how do you actually make something like that happen? And long story short that my first book is about my husband.
He has this incredible life story of growing up in this really difficult and abusive and just really poverty stricken, addiction ridden environment. And he lived through this life that was almost like a movie. And then, Went on to change his life, overcome the odds, come to faith and really have this like beautiful victory and redemption story.
And so I just started interviewing him and writing this story and kind of put it out there to Oh yeah, I'm writing this book. Like assuming that I would self publish. But I happened to meet, I happened to be [00:05:00] talking to a friend who had published some books and she was like, Oh, do you want me to introduce you to my agent?
And I'm like, Oh, yeah. Sure. Not really thinking it would lead anywhere, but, I ended up writing a full book proposal, meeting the agent, he loved the idea, he took me on as a client, and then we were able to sell that book to a book publishing company, and so it was a whirlwind, and totally, against the odds that would happen in that way, but but really cool that I was able to have that happen.
Oh, that's so cool. Congrats. Thank you. What publisher was it through then? Thomas Nelson, which HarperCollins. Amazing. That's so cool. Yeah. Really cool. And what's the title of that book? Okay. It's a long one. Leaving Cloud Nine, the true story of a life resurrected from the ashes of poverty, trauma, and mental illness.
Wow. So it's deep. It's deep. But it has a good ending. That's really cool. And that's really inspiring for other people that might be in a situation like that, or just. There's [00:06:00] a lot of relatable stuff. It's cause anyone, that has dealt with a family member that has a mental illness or an addiction, people that have dealt with alcoholics in their family, there's a reason that Al Anon, which is the support group for family members of alcoholics, has so many chapters across the country and so we've heard from a lot of people that are like, I really saw my own story in this book, and, thank you for putting words to what happened to me, and it's just very hopeful in the end, and so yeah, that was our goal.
Wow. Amazing. That sounds so good. Thank you so much for sharing that. Yeah. Yeah. And then you were published in, where were you all published? Of my articles? Yeah, your articles. Lots of places but my fun, most fun ones to talk about are the New York Times, I've been published in the New York Times a few times, and the Wall Street Journal a few times as well as like the Washington Post, the New York Post, um, I have a column in World Magazine on [00:07:00] a twice a month.
I write for them twice a month. I am a regular freelance reporter for Christianity Today magazine. And then I regularly write for the Washington Examiner. Sometimes National Review. Just a whole bunch of different places. Like, wherever I want to pitch and try, certainly had plenty of rejections.
That's part of it. We all know that. And I have lots of goals, like I really want to publish in the Atlantic, but that is so hard to get. But I do think it's possible. So we'll see. A hundred percent. And that's so inspiring. So basically your clients, like you do both, right? So you're a freelance writer and then you're also a coach and you help others.
Are you focused on a specific like audience or is it like who's coming to you? Yeah I yeah, so my business is really it's two parts for the most part. So I've got, my content writing social media copy, Management side. Those are, that's my, the [00:08:00] bulk of my income that comes from those sort of anchor clients that I work for every month, which is great.
I like doing that and it's still, writing work in general. And but then on, on the other side of it, or, I'm also pitching my articles and writing them, but then I'm also coaching. The coaching I generally just attract almost all women, just by nature, I think, of being a woman.
I've had a few, yeah, I've had a few guys, but, and I'm like totally open to men joining, but mostly women. And I started off in a writing group called Hope Writers a while back. And that is a faith based writing group, but they had a big Contingent of people and I had been in it for a long time.
So when I started my business, I really put it out there. So I've had a lot of people come from that group over to my program. And, I think I am just looking for people that are sort of. They're really wanting to make an impact with their writing. They're really wanting to see their names published, their bylines.
I teach both sort of the business side of getting the content in [00:09:00] the ACL clients and getting the big bylines. But what I feel like I get most of are people that are wanting the bylines more so than wanting like all the income. I generally attract, that kind of a client, but I do have both kinds coming in.
And if you're like me, you want to do both of those things so that you can have enough money to do the creative articles that you want to do. A hundred percent. So I think like also a lot of women that were on my podcast that are focusing on, like helping others, like publishing nonfiction books, for example, like it's like a whole part of a strategy too, right?
So it's not only the book stands for itself, or like in your case, obviously the article or the publication doesn't stand for itself, but then obviously like it's a whole kind of like just a piece of a puzzle, right? And that's something I've been really focusing on this year is that because sometimes, when you look at why are people not, taking my course, for example, sometimes I'll hear people, Oh, I'm working on a book.
I don't have time right now to focus on articles. And I've really been trying to tell people like you [00:10:00] have to focus on articles because marketing a book requires you to write outside of the book. And I let people know that Freelance writing actually is a step towards getting your book done or a step towards a book deal because it really validates your idea.
It shows that readers are interested in what you have to say. It elevates your name ID. It gives you an opportunity to build your email list. There are so many benefits that come with writing freelance articles in notable places. And, if you look at organizations and businesses, like everybody wants this.
What did they call it? Earned media where they're not paying for ads because that is the absolute best kind of promotion that you can get and you can get yourself earned media by writing these freelance articles and get paid yeah that's the best thing like it's a win it's a win yeah that's perfect Yeah, I think that's a really great strategy, and I think like for a lot of people, is it, for the people in your world, it's not so much of getting a consistent income then is it more [00:11:00] like having that big article out somewhere and then that leads to something else, right?
Yeah. I think people are interested in both, but primarily what draws them to me specifically is wanting to get. those bigger articles published. I think the, okay, let's make an income, a bigger income is like just also a benefit. It's oh, cool. I'll learn about that too.
But I really, am more focused on the bylines. Although I have really built out the side of my course that is focused on the freelance business side as well. If that's what people are looking for. Yeah. Yeah, a hundred percent. Yeah, that's so interesting. That's so cool so is it always that's one group that starts with you and you have A couple of weeks or do you work one on one or what is yeah, so I, I launched my signature course about three times a year.
And so I have anywhere, usually have anywhere from eight to 15 people. And, it's six weeks [00:12:00] of, We have, modules and lessons and resources and templates and all that. And then we have the coaching call once a week. Usually it will include a one on one call with each person.
And I really try to be very personal with people and really get into the nitty gritty with them of their story ideas and Kind of hand holding a little bit of let's write these pitches let's pick the places we want them to be published. And, I'm willing to help them like find the editor names and do the digging with them.
And so that's the, I think good thing about having a small group Instead of I wouldn't say no to thousands of students But you could never be that personal when you get to that level. And so That's what I enjoy about it. And then people can also take the course solo at any time but you wouldn't get the coaching and the group aspect, which I think is really helpful.
And then I have, several other classes that I sell as less of a focus for me, but available for those that may want something else or focus on, a different aspect of writing. Yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah, I'm on the same page. I feel when you know your [00:13:00] people and you listen to them that's the whole kind of like fun also, like in coaching, because otherwise you just have that.
There's so many out there, obviously. And I'm like, I invested in so many courses in the past as well. But if you just have the online course, it just brings you that far. And I heard a statistics, it's like only 5 percent of people that buy a course will actually finish it.
Watch all the kind of like modules there are, even though they would be beneficial, if you don't really have a community to connect to, like with like minded people that are like trying to do the same as you or like a coach, then I think it gets really difficult for a lot of people to.
Yeah. You could, you probably have those self motivated people out there. But I do think it's harder. And, since I have become, a person that really values coaching for myself, like I will never go back because it is so much better for me in terms of motivation, inspiration and the fact that you can have someone to go to and just ask a question basically anytime.
And they can give [00:14:00] you Like a life changing answer that you wouldn't come up on your come up with on your own and totally change the trajectory of like your mindset. The mindset piece of it is also really big. Like we have to overcome so much self doubt imposter syndrome. I get encounter a lot of people that are a little bit intimidated.
I've heard, intimidated by my course because they're like, Oh, like you've been published all these places. Who am I? I've never even published anything. And I have to go in there and tell them, Hey, guess what? Editors tell me they do not care if you've published before, what they care about is your idea.
And I'm going to tell you how to shape your idea in a way that makes sense for these editors to say yes to. It's not about your experience. They don't care if you went to college. It's about the idea that you have. Yeah. A hundred percent. That's so amazing that you share that because that's what it's all about.
Like you are the one that, provides a shortcut. For and that's what sometimes people say, Oh, you can Google everything and you can watch [00:15:00] YouTube videos. Of course, like you can get all the information for free, but like how much different information do you get? And like from, I always say to my students as well, I cannot teach you anything that I haven't done personally.
And I haven't achieved personally because it would just not make sense. Like you come to me just because I've been through like different stuff and like the same with you, exactly what to look out for. And you cannot find that in a YouTube video or something. Yeah. You can't find that personalization, in coaching, it's they're literally.
Looking at you as a person and taking into taking it all in, your background, your perspective, your experience, and your actual idea that's sitting in front of you. And then they can work with you on that. And you're never going to find that on. Google university, there are, that's right.
There are videos on everything, but unless you're invested in something, like you're not going to put in the work and the commitment it takes for that to actually result in real action. Yeah, a hundred [00:16:00] percent. And then still like the big mindset piece is missing as well. That was true for me.
And, I say to people in my course, like when they come to me as well, that. Like the mindset piece is a big thing. And it's like a foundation, of course, you want to learn about writing and freelance writing and all of that, like how to create an income stream, blah, blah, blah.
But obviously if you don't have the mindset piece in place, and if you don't believe in yourself, and like you said, like imposter syndrome, all of that, then it like, doesn't matter if you have all the tools, if you would never use them. Yes, it's a really amazing because I'm definitely not like a person that is like manifest everything.
That's not how I am. But it is really incredible how mindset changes everything. And in terms of just that confidence that comes with believing in yourself, when you just have a little bit of support can really make all the difference in your success. Yeah, that's what [00:17:00] I think too. Definitely. And then obviously it's great for them that they can, report back to you and they are like, Hey, I was successful, that's great.
Yeah. It's interesting, it's fun for me, like the people that really use me as a coach when they're in my program, like they are emailing me, they're sending a pitch. Oh, like I sent it two days ago. Should I follow up? Or here's what they said in the follow up. How should I respond?
Like I'm like, in, in their ear whispering here's what to say, here's what to do, because it is hard when you're first doing it and you're like, what am I supposed to ask about how much they pay? Or like, when should I, Mention this or that and it's just like these unknowns where you just don't want to do or say the wrong thing and it's just nice to have someone who can assure you, yes, this is what you should do, it's fine, blah, blah, blah.
And then, I mean it goes well for most of your students anyway then, right? What do you mean? Most of your students have the outcome that they, were looking for. Correct? Yeah. Yeah. I think I, I get great testimonials. Like [00:18:00] people come in and they're just like, I think one of the biggest things that people will say is that they love the personal level of coaching and the relatability.
And I'm just, I'm a pretty, don't want to say not professional, but like I'm casual, like I'm a, I joke around, like I'm not gonna be super serious all the time, like I really like to relate to people, and I think that makes people feel really comfortable coming to me, and I have seen a lot of people get makes You know, the bylines that they were looking for, which is my favorite thing to share.
Sharing like, Oh, Hey, my student just got published in the Washington post or this student was just published in good housekeeping. And that almost makes me happier than when I get my own bylines because I realize, I've helped these people achieve their dreams. And I'm like, it's working.
It's actually working this dream that I had to help people. Yeah. That's amazing. And like the topic they write about, like it almost doesn't matter then, right? Yeah. People are writing about all kinds of things. Everything from, like their own mental health issues to [00:19:00] like a random subject.
Because when it comes to freelance writing in some of these places, it could be something totally silly or something super serious. I don't care what people want to write about. I'm happy to help them shape ideas around whatever it is they're drawn to. And then you read all of these articles as well, right?
I don't typically read the full articles. I'm really with them for the pitches, but if anyone asks me to read through, I will. I just, it's not like a general practice, but I'm happy to read through them if I'm asked. I just wanted to say you learn a lot, too, then about different topics and stuff like that.
Oh, yeah, definitely. Oh, yeah. It's fun to learn about that stuff and just to, to hear the ideas that people come up with, where I'm like, because I can, when someone tells me an idea for one of these, Pieces like I can almost immediately tell if they're onto something. It's there's something it's got that's something.
And it's hard to explain what that something is, but it's [00:20:00] always going to be a unique angle, perspective, unexpected curiosity driven. And if somebody has that, I'll just be like, you're onto something. I can tell this is really good. And it's really exciting to help them really. flesh it out and get it to the point where they're ready to pitch it.
That's amazing. That's so cool. It's almost you have that sixth sense for that, right? Yeah, that's what it feels like, actually. That's so cool. Very inspiring. It's actually made me want to be, I'm like, maybe I should be an editor and, take these pitches. I should be a magazine editor.
So I don't know, maybe that's in my future. Maybe you will work for Vogue or something. Oh my gosh, that would be amazing. That would be so cool. Definitely. So what are your goals for the future with your coaching business? Anything that kind of want to develop out of that or really go as an editor yourself, do you plan another book or what is it for you?[00:21:00]
Yeah. I think everything is so divided. My, my work as an author is. It's pretty separate from this business. Although I am planning to write another book. So it'll be my third book. But that's a whole other thing that takes up a lot of time a lot of time and effort, but I hope to do that just because I like doing it and it's something that really fulfills me.
And then for the business, I would really like the business to. Grow, I would love the my signature course to continue to be refined to be better and more effective for my students. Every time you have around of a launch, like you get feedback and you're able to make things better and more targeted and more pointed for what people are really looking for.
So I would love to grow that and have more people go through Bragworthy Bylines. And I think, I'm working on messaging because I'm trying to, one of the things that I want to say that I don't feel that is getting across clearly enough is, Like how much of a difference you can make with writing.
Because I write personally, I write about [00:22:00] really a lot of really serious things like policy issues and big things that are facing people in the world. And the reality is that you can write your rant on a Facebook status update, but that's not going to do anything. But if you're able to write a clear and coherent and persuasive message in a large publication you can actually change someone's mind.
You can actually make a difference for things that you care about. And it's like when I had my pieces in the New York Times Do you know how many people read the New York Times opinion page? Yeah, exactly. That's so crazy. It's crazy. For you that piece, you don't even know whose life you're changing in this moment publishing that article.
It's just crazy to think about that ripple effect in the world. You, from that, from then onwards, that's just amazing. Especially, I have to say, I'm glad you mentioned that, because especially the last piece that I had in the New York Times, which was a while, it was a while, it was like, Over at least over a year ago but it was about drink alcohol, women and alcohol.
And I quit drinking. And [00:23:00] so I was writing about this like craziness that happened with women during COVID long story short. So the article was titled women. Do we need an intervention? And I directed people to a lot of resources at the end. And I personally go to these meetings and I was on a meeting that next week and Just, one of the hundred people in the meeting and this woman comes on and she goes I read this article in the New York Times and I think it saved my life.
And then I was like, That was I wrote that, and then we connected a little bit, but Like just that's look that's the kind of thing you can do with your writing and it's really powerful That kind of brought tears in my eyes now that I know That's just crazy. It really is and it can take a lot of effort, it can take a lot of rejection to get to that point, but I think, if for a message that you really care about, I think it's worth that effort.
'cause people will spend years working on a book, but what you don't [00:24:00] realize is that an article on something in a big magazine or publication like that can actually have more impact than a book. Hundred percent because a book is a wholly different, totally different thing and it's a lot more hard to market, but there's a lot less, but with articles, there's not as much pressure on you. So anyway, all that to say I encourage people to look at these big articles as almost like as big a deal as a book project, if it's something that you really care about. And 100%, it's also It reminds me always, like I'm running a copywriting course this week too with my students or like we were getting into different trainings and I said to them too, like writing change, it changes so much because, like the audience changes, everyone is so different nowadays.
And obviously a lot of people like enjoy reading books, but, I don't How much more likely is it that someone sits down and reads a whole article instead of a whole book? And then, like in a book, you always have so many key messages, but in an article, it's just really [00:25:00] condensed.
And that's what sticks with them too. Yeah. And it's just, it's yeah, a lot more sticky. Like influential people who might see it, like much more likely to share it. And and you can just do so much with. With an article and I have, I try to remind myself of that sometimes where I'm like, why don't you focus on the article writing instead of the book so much because, the book that I plan to write my third book is about that, actually that topic.
It started there with the article. So yeah, a hundred percent. That's so cool. So when are you starting your next course? So the next live round will be in May, so I'll be doing a lot of promo for that in April and yeah, I'm currently in the middle of a live round, and then, yeah, I'll do another launch in April, and we'll go in May, and then I'll probably do another one later in the year, in September.
Nice. That's really cool. How many weeks is it? It's six weeks. Wow. Really cool. I will definitely join at one point. I hope [00:26:00] so. I'm super interested. Maybe not this year, with New baby coming and everything, but yeah, we'll see. Maybe in fall. We'll see. Yeah, that would be cool. I would love that.
You can bring your baby and we'll say hello. Yes, definitely. That's cool. All babies welcome. Yeah. It's always like the beauty of being on zoom. Like no one really cares, yeah. Yeah. I love that. That's amazing. Yeah. Thank you so much for that. Thank you so much for chatting. That was super interesting.
I will pop all your links below for everyone that wants to check you out. And maybe we can also pop an article link below thing and links to your books. Last question, maybe. What was your second book? My second book is called Reason to Return. And it is a book for women who have feel like they've maybe Not lost their faith, but distanced themselves from their Christian faith and are wanting to come back to that and find and find that part of themselves [00:27:00] again.
And so it really speaks to that. And there's a lot of people like that out there. And so it's really for, yeah, for women that really want to reclaim their Christian faith and start living that out as a bigger part of their lives again. Beautiful. That's amazing. Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing that.
Yeah. It's just amazing how like your. Life, like it makes sense, like how life evolves and then like the books you publish and then the articles and the course it's like everything like is built on such an amazing foundation. Yeah. It all has worked out pretty well.
So I'll just I'll just keep going on this path. Perfect. Thank you so much, Erica. Thank you for having me. Have a good rest of your day and weekend and I speak to you soon. Okay. Bye
Thank you so much for being on the podcast, Erica. That was amazing. Please share this episode, please rate it. That would mean a lot. So let me know if you have any other questions and stay tuned for [00:28:00] the next episode.
I'm going to go ahead and
