Episode 27
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[00:00:00] Oh,
Welcome back to the Women in Writing Podcast. We have Shannon on the podcast today, and she is re releasing eight novels, just like that. So you can definitely learn a lot from an experienced, creative writer like Shannon. Listen in.
Hello and welcome, Shannon. How are you today? I'm doing wonderfully, Christina. Thank you so much for having me here. I'm so excited. Remind me, where are you located? I'm in upstate New York, and not the upstate New York that's just outside the city, but true upstate New York near the Baseball Hall of Fame and some wonderful [00:01:00] historical locations, at least as far as history is concerned in the U.
S. Amazing. That's really cool. I love that. Thank you so much for sharing that. I'm so glad that we can finally chat. It feels like forever ago that we started talking. Yes, I agree. And I've enjoyed everything that you have on the different programs that you've been offering. I've been learning some wonderful things from you and having some great lessons reinforced.
So I appreciate all of that. Thank you so much. I love that. So what are you doing? Do you just want to explain to everyone what's your focus, why you love writing and if you started really early or. Just a little bit of your background. Sure. I started writing basically as soon as I could hold a pencil.
I was surrounded by all sorts of wild characters, including my dad, who did Revolutionary War reenactment. And so there was always something interesting going on. [00:02:00] And so Story was a big part of my life as a tiny child all the way up through, obviously adulthood. And it's a very powerful thing, story.
I think that it's one of those few things that truly connects us across geography, across generations. That desire that we have. The innate desire to share things with each other. It's tremendous. It's just a powerful thing. And I've always found myself in awe of people who do things with it. And I always wanted to go that direction.
Oh, that's wonderful. I love that you share that. So yeah, so basically, did your dad influence you a lot then? Or like the way you tell stories? He definitely influenced me quite a bit when it came to wanting to do storytelling. He was also a [00:03:00] history teacher and I went into teaching social studies as well.
And that. History's full of stories. That's really all that it is. Forget about the dates. They're just part of the chronology. They're just for context. It's the people and the things that actually happen because of those people acting as protagonists that make history what it is. A hundred percent.
It's so cool that you say that because I have not thought about that in a while, but like when I was. young, like in school, I loved history. I loved learning all about like the Roman Empire and all, exciting, like stuff like that. And that's totally right. There is the connection between like history and story, storytelling, all of that.
That's amazing. It's just always been a huge influence for me. And my dad even played guitar and sang and did some things like that. And even those songs, they were [00:04:00] ballads and ballads are just stories put to music. So story was everywhere. Amazing. And how does that influence your life right now?
So because of my love of history and all of the social studies and all of that, it's given me a very broad view of the world, mythology, legends, religions, all of those wonderful things. Okay. And very amazing and sometimes tricky things. And. So when I use, when I do things today, like writing the things that I like to write and writing for people because I do ghostwriting, it allows me to dig into those previous experiences and I can look at a ghostwriting for is going through and I can see the [00:05:00] interesting threads that connect it to the story.
Traditional stories and those universalities that story tends to have and that allows me to make a stronger story because of it. I believe that 100 percent that you really then like in a way better position to have a way stronger story, right? If we look back at what Joseph Campbell did so many years ago now, but still vital with looking at the hero's journey, that's something that we see everywhere.
And in most cases, when I'm talking to authors who I am doing their ghostwriting for, they very much have lived a life that in some way reflects the hero's journey. And so it also allows me to actually ask them even more appropriate questions, because I know that there are [00:06:00] probably moments in their lives that somehow connect back to that, and perhaps because of trauma or whatever, they've forgotten those moments.
So I use story to help in the interview process. So basically you can make better connections, right? Yeah. Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. I'm so sorry. I didn't want to interrupt you at all. That's okay. But it's not like making the connections then, correct? Yes. Yes. And connection is very important to making sure that the appropriate story comes across to readers.
If you're not connecting, especially as a ghostwriter, if you're not connecting to the person that you're writing for, how can you possibly carry their voice to readers? So it's important. So what kind of stories are like, what are you writing about? Is it like a specific person that would come to you for ghostwriting?
Is it like a specific kind of like niche or who are you ghostwriting for? [00:07:00] So I actually ghostwrite rather widely and of course, because of NDAs, I can't get into specifics, but I can say that the majority of people that I wind up ghostwriting for are people who have survived some sort of trauma, know that they have something worthwhile to share with others, But they may not have the experience that I do with writing and with transmitting story.
So they need someone to help get their words and their story into a more palatable sort of project. That makes sense. So basically, it's always and I think like sometimes as writers, like we forget that there's people out there that just cannot write, because a lot of times like for us, you write since you can basically hold a pencil.
That's what you said. It's like easy, like it flows, but obviously there's a lot of people that cannot [00:08:00] write and it's just great to have a professional like you to really maybe also from an outside perspective because maybe these people obviously they survived their trauma and survived their pain but you might have like you might see things and again, make connections and see perspectives that the person itself cannot.
Is that correct? Yes. Yes. There have been many times when I'm doing ghostwriting and even when I'm book coaching people who may have issues with trauma that During the course of the interviewing or the strategy sessions, which is an interviewing situation. I'll ask a question and they'll sit back and they'll say, that actually brings a memory to mind.
I didn't realize how that fits in until you asked me that. It's hard sometimes because you don't want to necessarily trigger painful moments for them, [00:09:00] but they also have these wonderful moments of epiphany and that seems to help. That's lovely. That's amazing. It's so great that you can bring that forward and use your voice like your voice as their voice almost, right?
It's very important for me to basically step back, listen and observe them so that I can essentially write the way that they would write if they had the skill that I've learned over decades. 100%. What was your first kind of like ghostwriting project? Did it feel, at the very beginning, maybe a little bit, because obviously like ghostwriting and there's People in my world that think, oh, maybe it's a little bit shady, or, I get you get that a lot, right?
Or is that something you're not concerned with anymore? No, I think once people understand what goes into ghostwriting, and the [00:10:00] sort of people who come to me specifically, and The way that we handle it. I think that question of, oh, is this a shady sort of deal that goes right out the window? Because yeah, the fact of the matter is we're providing at least.
Ghostwriters like me, we're providing a service for people who simply can't do it themselves. It's making sure that everyone can get through the same door. Sometimes you have to adjust the size of the door, the entrance to the door, you have to make certain accommodations. Some people simply do not have the current ability, but they know that their story is timely.
And they don't have time to build the skill. And some people, it's just, they want their message to get out there, but with everything else in their life they can't, they just can't do it [00:11:00] without help. Yeah. A hundred percent. I think it's just beautiful what you're doing and you support so many people like that's wonderful.
Thank you. Thank you. So how do you find your clients usually do they. Find you as you like people either obviously it's like word of mouth almost. or do people, do you find people actively or how did you manage that at the at the beginning, just to make sure we have work, yeah. So at the very beginning, I was actually still the director for a local library and I was doing that. And I was starting to realize that was not necessarily where I was happiest or most fulfilled. There were certain things that I was lacking there as much as I loved the people that I was dealing with.
And I, [00:12:00] I loved so much of it. I needed more. And so I had just on a whim posted on my Facebook page that I wanted to go into something that was in the writing zone, but maybe a little different from the first things I had written, which were books that came out in 2010 and on. And somebody actually responded to me and said, you know what, I want to introduce you to people at my agency.
And they made some connections for me and thanks to the. Background that I have in writing and publishing already. I got in and I am part of a very wonderful agency. And that is one of the main ways that I find people that need me to write their books. Wonderful. I also, thank you. I also do [00:13:00] get word of mouth people coming to me.
I met some amazing people recently on a trip abroad and that got a ball rolling as well, just by chatting with them and being open and receptive. So the agency when did you start working with them? Was it like a longer time ago or? It was about 2020, I think. So we're going on four years now.
And the team that is at that particular place is simply amazing. Everybody is very supportive of each other. Everyone helps to make sure everyone has whatever they need to succeed. They are very success driven and want everyone to be happy. And so it's just been, it's been fabulous. Was it difficult for you to get in there at first [00:14:00] or?
Again, because I already had eight novels published with St. Martin's Press, which is part of Macmillan. And I had won a international contest in writing shortly before those started. It wasn't very difficult at the time because they were looking to expand. They liked what I have to offer and the skillset that I came to them with.
And we just gelled, we came together pretty well. Amazing. Yeah, I love that. And it's all about obviously like the opportunity, right? Yes. Like I support like people get into agencies just because I think it's a great way to get clients and it's a great way to build like a relationship also with the agency that they know how reliable you are and that you can provide like a great work.
So I think it's really beneficial for like different parties. I agree. [00:15:00] I agree. They had things in line that just made the workload easier and made things flow better. They had their standard operating procedures and I just had to learn those sorts of things and I added my special sauce, I guess you could say, and it just it worked out really well and I'm very appreciative because during the process it reinforced something that I learned The first series of books that I wrote for St.
Martin's Press, and that was that writing as solitary as part of it is, writing is also very much a team situation. You have to be able to play well with others. You've got to be able to work well with other people.
Definitely. So what is how many books did you write in your life? Do you even like, when was the last time you counted? Over the past couple of years, I've [00:16:00] written more than a half dozen which is not particularly fast when you look at some authors production rates. Some are writing at tremendous speeds, and I've done that in the past.
When I was under deadline for that first series I wrote a draft in only two weeks, and that was for a full novel. It was hard, but it was quite a challenge and it was a challenge I enjoyed. But Because ghostwriting requires so much back and forth, with your interviewing, with having the author actually read and approve things, and ask additional questions, it slows production time down a bit.
You, you've gotta work with everybody's schedule, and that's okay. It's part of the process. So with those, let's say half dozen or so books, and then with the eight that [00:17:00] I saw published with my own name on them not including anthologies that I've been part of, and other things so I've got 14, 15, 16, something like that, books to, to my credit and it's growing.
I should be finishing another two in the next two months. And that doesn't include what I'm book coaching also. Oh my, amazing. Yeah. So you coach other authors or are you coaching the people that are writing their own books Yes. So aside from the ghost writing that I do, I also do book coaching of people who want to write their own books, but maybe they're struggling a little bit.
Maybe they need that extra push, a little bit more of an education about publishing and about the writing [00:18:00] process itself. And so I'm using skills that I actually use And so we've been doing a lot of work with the authors in Ghost Writing and interviewing to talk to them, figure out what it is that they really need in order to get their writing moving correctly.
So there's a lot of listening. Definitely. You really have to understand, what it is that they need right now. obviously also like that fine difference between mentoring and coaching and asking the right questions and just moving them forward, right? Exactly. And other than all that, I'm also still writing my own stuff.
I recently got my rights back for my first two series from St. Martin's Press. Wow. I'm going to be re releasing eight novels. That is amazing. When is when is that happening? I'm going to be starting late [00:19:00] this year because I'm going back through everything with a fine tooth comb and seeing what I feel is a little bit, maybe it needs to be slightly adjusted for readers today.
Since they started out about ten, twelve years ago. 14 years ago, almost. So yeah, so I'm doing that. And I recently released another book entirely that is a slightly different genre for me and was so much fun because it took my love of history and literature and Folklore and the paranormal and I got to do something really fun with that.
So that's something that just yeah, just came out super soft launch. So it's, that's amazing. So it's basically like that creativity and that [00:20:00] It, it fuels you a lot and gives you a lot of energy then to also write for your clients, right? Absolutely. Absolutely. And being able to write very different things is something that I really love doing.
I have to say that St. Martin's Press and that first series of books the 13 to life series that I wrote actually helped to train me to juggle projects because My first book was releasing at the time that my second book was being revised by me and heading back to editors again, and at the time that I was writing the third book.
So I had everything moving in such a strange way, but you have to keep everything, going in the correct order and keep your eyes on each project individually while you're doing all of them. So [00:21:00] for me, yeah. So for me, juggling a variety of different books, it's fun. It's challenging, but It's one of those things that if we look at story, regardless of genre, there are certain things that still wind up needing to shine through.
And if we take those things, sometimes writing science fiction may remind us of something that is also applicable when we're writing a memoir. As strange as it sounds. Again, keeping our eyes open for the opportunity that's presented, it's a huge part of a freelancer's journey. A hundred percent. I love that.
Thank you so much for sharing that because I feel like it's absolutely the same. Like you have to learn and obviously a lot of people, like once you're [00:22:00] doing it, like once you're freelancing, you learn that pretty quickly, but it's definitely like juggling different things. Like it's. Also that understanding that kind of like writing can fuel you so much, but obviously at the same time, you have to be mindful because like sometimes writing takes a lot of energy as well.
Like I was, I always say that I, my career was always in hospitality before that. I was always a writer on the side because I just love writing too much. But like in hospitality, obviously, like it's way different. Like you have I don't know, like we work like hours and hours and it's fun to be with people and it.
fuels you as well. If you're like that type of person, but writing, yeah, you have to get used to it and you have to, keep going, but it like is something that gives you so much energy as well. Very true. And yet I'll bet with [00:23:00] those lessons, you learned working hospitality, you wind up using those all the time.
You know how to put on the professional face and to do the things that need to be done to represent your brand. Yeah. And that's important with freelancing and you know how to connect with people and that's vital as a writer because we're crafting entire worlds and the characters that populate those worlds.
In order to do that, we have to know people. And it's so interesting that you say that because I interviewed other ladies that were like focusing more on like nonfiction and obviously like they like actually shared a lot that, they have the most respect for people like you that can create characters and tell the stories rather than serving a brand, almost, if that makes sense.
Like for you, it's more about the personal story and like the hero's journey. [00:24:00] Instead of, and that's obviously a term, like a lot of people are using that in marketing nowadays. And I love that especially at as personal brands. And I'm a total believer of that as well. That, only if you can, only if you have been through like certain things, you can support other people going through that as well.
But I think it's a great thing that, like writing has such a variety, and yeah, so much space like for all of us and all the talent. And that's very true. I think a lot of times we come into writing and we think that this is going to be some vicious competition, and you can see it with some of the scandals that happened over the past year and a half with some writers who just.
They were living in, a more fearful and almost paranoid place. And so they made some big and dramatic mistakes with how to interact with each other. Whereas the fact is [00:25:00] there are so many people. Who are hungry for story and who need to connect and sometimes escape through story that there is room in the market for all of us.
And if we all pull together and we all support each other, we can do even better than we are currently doing. Yeah, a hundred percent. I love that. And I think it's a big shift and like it's a really positive shift, obviously, because I remember like these times or growing up or on TV where especially like in the female world, it was more about competition.
And now I just see like more, like everyone online, is so friendly and helpful and supportive. And it's more of a sisterhood, even though people are doing like similar things. Everyone like has their unique strengths and it just, it's just wonderful. I think like [00:26:00] it's a really good development.
It is. It's really, it's a nice sort of paradigm shift that's happened recently. And I wish everybody could feel that same thing because. It's that idea that a rising tide lifts all boats, right? The idea that as I go up, I can help lift others. As they go up, they help lift me. I've benefited from sisterhood sort of situations.
I have a lot of writers in writing. I definitely have. And for that reason, I have writers groups, almost every weekday morning, where I try to help those people who would also like to benefit and learn more about writing and connect with other people who are doing the same thing. Yeah, it's just, it's such a warm and family feel that develops, right?
So that's amazing. I really love that. [00:27:00] So you open like the room for people online or yes, so every morning My time, which is Eastern. We wind up starting at seven and go from seven to seven thirty for one of my writers groups. We all come in. We say hi to each other. We ask how everybody's doing.
And then we step over to our keyboards and we start writing and we come back right about. 725, 730. And I ask how everybody's doing. How'd they do? What did, did they have additional questions? Is there anything they need? And we have a nice chat that's going on Facebook too. So they see like when I'm traveling and doing things like that, I send them the strange photos I don't post to anyone else.
And we all support each other. It's so much fun. And then I have another group that runs from 8 to 830 [00:28:00] and almost every Wednesday we go from 11 a. m. to 1 p. m. for word sprints. So that's a totally different sort of thing, but it's very freeing. And it's definitely been helping.
different writers to make some word count goals, and to stop their internal editor from constantly barking at them in the background, constantly looking over it again and again, yes, I always say there's so much power in the first draft. I truly believe that because sometimes when I write something, and like I used to do that too, like I used to edit and edit.
But then I thought, okay, I will just write the first draft. And then we'll see. And then I found, oh, there's a lot of power in it like in these initial thoughts. And sometimes when you edit and edit, You don't make it better. It's not always the case. Yes, we can overanalyze and we're always our worst critics.
Almost always, [00:29:00] there's always going to be somebody, but yeah, I, what I found, and this helped me so much, especially when I wrote my second book in two weeks, that, that draft, making sure that you are moving fast enough to outrun your internal editor. That's, it's golden because you're opening opportunities up again, your mind is running so quickly.
Your fingers are trying to keep up, especially in my case. But because of that, you're not second guessing everything and new opportunities can come up in the story. Yeah, that makes so much sense. Yeah. I love that. Thank you so much for sharing that. So I will definitely also pop your information below.
So people need to find you and your website and everything. And that is there anything else you want to add to the [00:30:00] conversation. Sure. I just want to remind people that they can find me on my website. And that's Shannon Delaney. com I'm everywhere on social media too. And. I am happy for people to buy my books, give them a look.
There's a ton of different things that I do. And if you need some help and support writing, I'm happy to welcome you into our writing group. I can't wait. I'm so excited for your books to come out as well. I will definitely look at them and read them, obviously. Not only look at them, but read them.
Thank you. Thank you. Aww. Little one is coming. Perfect time. Hello. Hi. Oh, what a wonderful name. Thank you so much. Lovely. Janet, thank you so much for everything. Thank you, Christina. I appreciate your time and having the opportunity to [00:31:00] talk with you. You're doing some lovely things for freelance writers.
And I'm, I know that everybody is appreciating that. So keep doing what you're doing. It's awesome. Thanks,
I hope you got a lot out of today's episode with Shannon. I'm excited. I was like really blessed to talk to her and I learned a lot from her. So if you have any comments, I'm excited to read them and reach out to me. If you have any questions, you can always reach me on the hello at with Christina. com and you can find me on Instagram.
Thank you.
Oh,
